There is almost no difference between a watch that costs £300 and another that costs £7,000.

So why should we pay the extra £6,700?

There are approximately 5000 watch brands in the world. Out of these, 500 brands belong to groups like Richemont, LVMH, Swatch, Sowind, Gevril, Fossil, Seiko and so on. Although these Groups only correspond to ten percent of the world’s manufacturers, their turnover represents almost seventy percent of the industry’s sales.

These groups – which include independent brands like Ulysse Nardin, Oris, Rolex, Corum and Breitling – sell directly from their own offices, to shops in the UK. The other 4500 brands rely on distributors, agents and dealers, who are, in fact, (would be their) investors.

We could point to the boom of watches Made in China around 1990, although a number of manufacturers were already using Chinese tooling prior to this date. After 1990 the economic opportunity became obvious: there were huge advantages to be had by moving brand production to China.

These were the years during which a grey market was created for some of the more famous fashion brands; the time when a large number of cheap but ‘authentic fake/original’ watches were sold on the internet. How did it work? Fashion brands would ask Chinese companies to manufacture 5,000 pieces of a specific model. These manufacturers would actually produce 5,400, delivering 5,000 to their client and would transfer the remaining 400 to the grey market. The watch would probably cost no more than £25 to make, the fashion brand would retail it for £250 or over and, in the grey market, it would sell for around £60. Those days have gone.

While the grey market has almost disappeared completely, we are now able to find exceptionally good copies of those 500 top brands. Indeed at a fraction of the price of the original item – and no one is questioning such difference in prices, in some cases, several thousand of Pounds.

A litre of Scottish whisky can cost £2.45 and a litre of crude oil costs around £0.38 per litre (facts). But the cheapest bottle of whisky is available at around £11.00 per litre and petrol is £1.30 per litre at the pump. For the most part this is a result of the taxes levied by various governments and, of course, the massive profits made by the distilleries, wholesalers, distributors, retailers and, the oil companies. Taxes on oil and whisky are much higher than those on watches and other accessories, on which we only pay VAT. A watch from Japan or Switzerland at £200 will cost us £240 to import.

Watches belong to the fashion industry and, unlike other products such as cars, home appliances, electronic equipment and so on, expensive watches have no real, tangible value. We buy them because they make us feel good about ourselves.

The standard trade discount on almost all brands is 50% off retail, with a few going to 60%. Some policies are changing (as we speak) as “strong manufacturers” are looking to increase profits as volume of sales is and will decrease.

A very good marketing gimmick was brought to the UK by three British brands about a decade ago. Retail price for these watches stood at £499. They were advertised in hotels and papers at £99 and, best of all, they could be purchased on eBay or outside petrol stations (usually sold by some seedy characters) for about £35. I believe that this is still going on.

Bear in mind that any two watches will cost almost the same to produce, regardless of their shelf prices. One could be £100 and the other £7,000. It makes very little difference to most manufacturing costs. Without taking into consideration those watches that sell between £2 and £15, MOST models cost between £35 and £250 (maximum) to make. Probably a shocking revelation or one that most of you have known already but have refused to acknowledge (I have included a parenthesis on the subject at the bottom**).

The classic brands include the likes of Rolex, Tag, Breitling and Omega. They’re right at the top of the ladder. No one seems to question why some of these brand’s most basic models still cost between £2,500 and £6,000. As I said before, watches are fashion items. You have to wonder: why are you willing to pay so much for these brands?

When you pay that much for a watch, you also foot the bill for the brands’ astronomically expensive marketing campaigns. If Tag offers $20 million to Tiger Woods to sponsor their brand, then someone is fronting the money. That would be you, the hapless customer! If Breitling invests in aeroplanes and stuntmen to promote their brand, someone is paying for the jet fuel and the actors’ bills. You again!

Image[no complaints about Breitling air stewardesses].

Rolex is divided into different corporations but it is said that the group is worth CHF19 billion in assets. Those profits have to come from somewhere. Guess where – or who – that money comes from. Yes: you again!

Short and sweet, here you have it. There are the 4500 brands backed by little advertisement but which are still able to maintain a market presence for their low price timepieces (in some cases low quality timepieces too), while the big brands pay someone to come up with unbelievable statements about their products and charge you for their extortionate prices.

ImageImage

**[Cost breakdown – an anatomy of a watch].
I mentioned production costs between £35 and £250. A watch that costs £35 to produce is often sold for £1,500 and another that costs £250 to produce is sold for £750. There really are no set rules in this industry.
For around £9,500 one can buy a new Fiat, Seat, MG, Chevrolet, Dacia, Nissan, Hyundai and so on. Specifications for these cars will also be similar to each other. Based on the £35 – £250 ratio we ought to see one of these cars on sale for just over £67,000. We all know that this is not the case.

The public is led to believe that some brands are more special than others. Based on what?
The components are all the same. Case – one sort or other of steel or titanium or aluminium or some extravagant name that, in reality, does not mean anything. [For your information these are the prices, for ONE TONNE of: steel £128; aluminium £740; titanium £3,400; tungsten carbide (my favourite) £275. Most watches will average a weight, just for the case, of 70 grams (1 tonne = 100000 grams). Most high quality s/s cases are sold for £15 and another £8 [£23] for the strap. Sapphire glass could be expensive, especially the one made in Germany (Otto Frei, for example), but, on average, the cost doesn’t exceed £12 [£35]. Dials, hands, crowns are all in the small change prices. Might as well mention it now, assembling a watch costs £7 per piece [£42] – (Swiss made)].

The only argument left rests with the movement. At this point the connoisseurs will come up with a long list of testimonials and high end engineering that will make the movement so special and, in fact, so expensive. So expensive it seems, for many brands, that such movement will cost hundreds of pounds if not a couple of thousand. That is rather far from the truth.

Evidence of the wheel’s presence in the development of technology begins in the mid-4th millennium BC, and nothing much has changed since then. A couple of decades ago, a watch enthusiast named Walt Odets dared to criticise the Rolex movement as “a total piece of junk” (not quiet his words but a good summary based on what other watchmakers have shown me). Of course he got a good frying from the watch community, all too quick to defend the brand. Reality is, similar to the wheel, not much has changed on the watch movement front in the last 300 years.
I am still talking about basic ETA movement and not complications (known as Tourbillon or others). At this point, I need to raise my hat to the Japanese and their kinetic movement. Very accurate watches have been sold for less than £250, all singing and dancing.
The original Breitling brand closed its business in the early 80s but was later bought and revived by Mr. Ernest Schneider. With the view to bring money to the new company, he started selling, at around £900, some of his watches with a quartz Miyota Japanese movement. The cost of this movement was… £4.50 (add this to the £42 above and you have a “cheap” watch sold for £900). Most high end watches have an automatic movement and I can assure you that this does not cost more than £50 to make. Should it cost more, the manufacturing company would have serious financial problems.

To close this wrangle, I would like you to compare 2 pairs of watches.
The first pair is a Tissot Men’s SEASTAR 1000 Automatic, on sale at £575.00 – v – the Rolex Submariner at £5,700. Where does the £4,700 difference come from between the two watches?
There’s the Charmex CX Swiss Military Hurricane Automatic Chronograph (ETA cal. 7750 Valjoux COSC) at £1,200 – v – the Bretiling Navitimer World at £4,800 (same movement but the CX is superior in water resistance)
Finally – not to mention the almost £2,000 difference between two identical (1999) watches and with the same movement – The Zenith Rainbow El Primero – v- Rolex Daytona.

31 thoughts on “There is almost no difference between a watch that costs £300 and another that costs £7,000.

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  2. This is my full comment on this video and a few others posted by Rolex on YouTube

    The first point which I would like to “correct” (make) is that, mostly, people with low self-confidence and low self-esteem buy a Rolex watch. Please allow me to explain.
    Mr. Jones has been working for 25 years of his life as a kitchen porter. He has had no much of an education, lives in a council flat with wife and three kids. Suddenly he wins the Jackpot on the Lottery and he is, now, very rich.
    He might divorce his wife but he will surely be buying big car(s), “nice” suits, a yacht, a big house with swimming pool, will start drinking Moët & Chandon and Johnnie Walker (as he wouldn’t know what Armand de Brignac and Glenglassaugh are) and he will be buying a Rolex watch. “ROLEX – The ego-booster watch for the nouveau riche”.
    There must be some 100 brands out there that are more expensive than Rolex but would that be the nouveau riche or the pseudointellectual ‘tycoon’, the only important part for these people is to look (to others) affluent.
    Their problem, in fact, is their assumption that a Parmigiani Fleurier is some sort of sophisticated dessert at a French restaurant and Ulysse Nardin is a lost sequel to Homer’s Odyssey. No idea what these people would make of brand names like: Breguet, Blancpain, Bovet, F.P. Journe and many others.
    The observation, here, is that one doesn’t have to be rich to buy a Rolex. He mostly need to transmit his insecurity to/above others by showing good (debatable) taste and inflicting silent arrogance as a person of success (kitchen porter or farm worker whatever his background might have been).
    In 1992 a Rolex Submariner with date would cost £1,130 . Today, the same (similar) watch is £5,700. The 1992 model can be purchased second-hand from the Internet for £3,600 (mainly because there are sufficient nitwits that think that it is a good deal). The fact that model no.16610 has been discontinued, might have something to do with the inflated prices.
    There is, really, no smart person above. Even if he paid £1,130 for the Rolex and he is now selling it for £3,600 (23 years later) – he is still on a financial loss (poor investment). The nitwit that will buy the 1992 (£1,130) Rolex for £3,600 – should just carry on working as a kitchen porter. If in 1992 you would have invested $1,800 dollars – your return today would be $12,570 (or £8.160)
    Marketing is the mirror for the larks. From your choice on what to eat, drink, wear etc. the marketing companies are making sure that you chose Pringles, Coca-Cola and Nike.
    Reality, no matter what, is that the masses don’t want to know and don’t want to listen (they know best, after all – even in front of the evidence).

    PS – YouTube + Rolex advertising/marketing. A few points
    1) Most Rolex models have had the same design for decades – hence no much need for “new designs” or, most important, for new tooling.
    2) No, Rolex are not made by hand as we see in some videos
    3) Yes, Rolex are assembled in Switzerland by hand – but so are many hundreds other watch brands too
    4) Walt Odets (an American watchmaker) posted an article (around 1999) on how badly made was the Rolex movement. If you have an honest and friendly watchmaker – he/she will tell you the same
    5) Unheard-of on other movements, Rolex must be laid flat, on its right or left – if it is fast or slow! (??) – hardly a watch to tell the right time (despite COSC certification).

  3. This video is bit of a laugh – should you listen carefully to what they (Rolex) say. There are several “outsider companies” that work for Rolex to make straps and other components. Only in recent years (around 12) – Rolex has actually fully bought the company that makes their movements, has merged two offices into one and has moved away from Zenith El Primero movement for their Rolex Daytona. There is no reason why there is a shortage of Rolex Daytona watches but if Rolex are “King” of anything – they are surely king of marketing.

  4. That is NOT what grey market means. Any fakes or replicas are BLACK market. Grey marker is authentic watches sold in an alternative distribution scheme.

  5. Thank you Andre for comment. It was Grey market as these watches were manufactured for big names but there was no production control in place in those days. Hence, instead of producing 100 per week, they would make 110 per week and sending only 100 of them to the requesting Firm. The extra 10 could not be sold via “traditional channels” (invoicing would have been a problem – Mr. Chun Lieu selling on behalf of Gucci?, for example) but they were often sold as “stolen goods” or “fakes”.

  6. It seems your article directed toward luxury watch brands that use ETA movements (ROLEX, Tag, Breitling, Omega, etc). I think this doesn’t apply to watch brands in Haute Horlogerie level (Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Jaeger-LeCoultre, etc) and independent watch maker such as Philippe Dufour, as this is consider work of art.

    Here’s a documentary talking why high end watches have high price, they even mentioned that it takes one week just to polish the tourbillon parts.

    • Thank you for your input. Of course, you are right. Talking about Patek, Vacheron, Nardin, Parmigiani, Bovet etc. – would be a completely different topic. The aim, here, was to target the massive ignorance and general misunderstanding about Rolex and the watch industry in general.

  7. “”15 Dec 2015 = I disagree completely. Have you held them in your hands as opposed to seeing how they’re made? It’s very different to go to an AD and compare watches from $100 to $10,000 to $100,000. I’m not talking about the movement, the movement is irrelevant since only the watchmaker sees it after it leaves the factory. It’s only visible if the watch is skeletonized; otherwise it can only be judged based on positional variance.There are definitely visible physical differences between those price ranges in watches in my experience””.

    There have been a number of interesting comments made on Google+ about this post. I am posting only the last comment (above) because, interestingly so, it makes assumptions.
    One of my many faults is to expect that others have had similar experiences to mine; it seems that this is not the case.
    Give me name and model of a brand of watches and I have most likely seen it, touched it or worn it. Visiting watch factories across 4 Continents has been useful but also having spent some 20 years at various International Fairs and Exhibitions has shown to me many different aspects of the watch industry.
    To answer ‘another’ question/reply – “He cannot prove that a Rolex Submariner costs $300 to make”?
    …It seems to me that some readers have had a lobotomy (a neurosurgical brain operation) performed on them. As the procedure involves severing connections in the brain, there is a serious lack/ability to add facts.
    316L steel costs around $1200 per tonne. I am aware that steel used by Rolex is different (904L, for example) and they also use ceramic (still very cheap). We know that 1 tonne of steel is 1.000.000 grams. On average a case is about 72 grams. Hence, to work out the price per case we must divide $1200 by 1.000.000 (0.0012) and multiply it by 72 (0.0864).
    We can see that, even if the original price for shiny steel would go up to $8000 per tonne (which is not), cost per case doesn’t still reach one dollar (0.576). [This is why fake watches in Bangkok only cost $20 or even less]. However I know that most cases (good quality and finish) cost between $6 to $32 to buy (made in China). By the way, these cases are manufactured and sold to all good and famous brands. No one, in the right mind (Breitling, Omega, Tag) would care to re-invent the wheel and increase their costs by having cases made in Switzerland, for example, where costs would be ten times more expensive than China.
    Please don’t raise the red flag with brands like Patek, Nardin, Vacheron etc. because, in some cases (and only some cases) the actual watch case is hand finished. Rolex, considering their high volume of production, certainly do not hand finish much.
    Why doesn’t Rolex prove to me that I am wrong? I have published enough articles.
    Back to lobotomy.
    • Tissot PRS automatic Swiss ETA, 100m w/r – retail £430
    • Certina DS action automatic Swiss ETA, 200m w/r – retail £625
    • STEINHART “OCEAN 44 automatic” Swiss ETA, 300m w/r – retail £320
    • Glycine Combat Sub Swiss automatic, 200m w/r – retail £795
    The above is a very small selection of diver’s watches. If we shop around, we can find such watches retailing between £280 and £1,000. The movement is very much the same for all of them and they all have sapphire crystal and s/s strap.
    Basically, manufactuers, charge as much as they can. Please don’t forget that the above are RETAIL prices. This means that, should we take away the VAT and shop/retail margins, selling prices from the factory will be more like £172, £250, £128 and £318, respectively.
    Factory selling prices, NOT their costs (which would be even lower – around another 30% in most cases).
    Rolex produce more watches than Breitling and Omega put together. Their tooling has been the same for a long time (little has changed in design and size). They have their own offices in most Countries of the world and have, literally, 1000s of “agents/dealers” that make money on this brand. [This is why many get upset]. Do agents/dealers really know the product and what is behind it? Having spoken to a few shopkeepers the answer is a straight no. There is so much ignorance because most agents/resellers that work in the watch industry, very often have absolutely no idea of the market place. I remember a Sales Manager with some 20+ years experience in the industry, saying to me that Rolex cannot produce more than 20’000 pieces per annum (Rolex total watch production is over 850’000 pieces per annum). It is a matter of knowing the market and the “competition”.
    The only add on cost that Rolex has on their Submariner model, compared to the above four brands, is the COSC certificate. Last time I “looked” (and it was only a few years ago), the cost for a COSC certificate was less than CHF70 – approx. £45).
    Follow the logic and evidence with open eyes; it would be absurd to think that the cost of a Rolex Submariner is over $300. By the way, it retails over £5,000+
    There is definitely a different feeling to hold a £25 watch and another that costs £20,000. However the difference in finish and price adds only a few dollars to their cost. Some Tissot watches (the old T-Touch, for example) used a metal alloy for their straps which was cheap and nasty, leaving black markings on the wrist. I don’t know if they still do that. Considering that a s/s high quality strap costs around $12 – I am amazed that they cut corners – but they all do, if they can.
    I saw a company that used laser to engrave their cases. The machine was able to engrave in high definition three cases per minute, including logo too. Embellished version of ETA movements only cost a few extra dollars. Nice finish but still not expensive. There are several firms in Switzerland that will assemble a watch/brand. They charge about £6 per piece and, yes, of course, they are all hand assembled (just like Rolex do). On average, a person can assemble 50 pieces per day.
    Have I forgotten anything ? I hope not. Please, before making any asinine comments, get your facts and figures right. If Tag-Heuer has paid $20 million to Tiger Woods (he is now with Rolex) to promote their watches, someone, somewhere, the costs have to be covered. It is nice to see Clooney, Pitt, Beckham, Vonn, Diaz, Thurman to “support” these brands but they cost a few million per brand, per year. Yes, they get paid very well to promote a brand. Amazingly so, they are already wealthy and more money is offered to the rich and famous instead of promoting a product differently. But, we know, that, as customers, we like to comply, follow those iconic personalities thinking that a Rolex will enhance our status!
    Conclusion. Most watches (forget about gold and diamonds, please) based on s/s, sapphire crystal and automatic movement cost less than $200 to make. That would be Rolex, Tag, Breitling, Omega etc. – What you are paying for is their marketing (television, media, celebrities, parties, events and some “charity” too). If you pay £5,000+ for a Submariner and don’t get invited to their parties or events, well, that doesn’t make you particularly smart, does it?

  8. Sir, The video that u have shared on the complexity of the movements says a lot about teh price teh watches carry is’nt it? The srticle written here more or less points towards rolexes and omegas as they mostly carry ETA movements which are not very expensive to produce and put together. But dothe likes of Patek Phillippe, jaeger lecoultre, AP, Vacheron Constantin justify the exorbitant prices they carry? The average pricing is above $100,000!!! How do you look at it?

    Is it worth for a billionaire to buy a Vacheron because is atleast worth the money paid? or do u still have ur reservations on them?

    • The video is from Rolex – somewhat biased. I am no watchmaker but I have spoken to those that repair all kind of watches and they have shown to me the low quality of Rolex movements.
      Now, complications and tourbillion are something else. Rolex doesn’t make any – wonder why not!? Having said that, from the Far East it is possible to get complications and tourbillion below £9’000. Hence, they are no more a “privilege” for the haute horlogerie.
      Some wristwatches are made at the rate of 3 models per annum and they are hand-made. Hence the cost of £100,000+ for each one of them. Yet, remember, that the cost is probably £30,000 each, or less. In the case of the “Patek Caliber 89” watch – at the cost of over $5 million – this is pure marketing (even if it has taken five years to design and make). Not even a Bugatti Veyron costs this much.
      For some, $5 million is like for many spending $10 and it is all about prestige than actual value.
      I feel that some have taken this article in the “wrong way”. A litre of milk that we buy from the supermarket at £1, only costs 8 pence from the suppliers. Crude oil (petrol) costs 0.20 cents per litre – yet we pay £1 ($1.44) at the pump.
      Yes, they all make profits (taxes) and, in some cases, we have a choice on what we want to buy. Why should we pay £2 for a bottle of water when 1 litre of “soda” costs 25pence? As it happens, the main ingredient is…water. The list of products that are overpriced is a mile long.
      Comparing a £5,000+ Rolex Submariner with many other brands – this is simply a rip-off. However, as with the Bugatti or the Patek, someone is happy to pay over the odds just to…show off.

  9. Hi Max,

    I am not a watchmaker neither an expert, I am only a happy rolex (and some other brands) owner.
    I can understand that a lot of what I spent to buy them goes to marketing and doesn’t reprensent the real cost of the watches.
    But do you really think that a brand can last as long as Rolex has by selling poor quality items only by spending millions and billions in marketing?
    Don’t you think that over such a long period if rolex’s watches were that bad people would still buy them?
    Do really think that marketing has such power over people for so much time?

    I think that marketing can fool people for a certain period of time but at the end if you sell shit you can spend whatever you want in marketing it will still be shit and people will eventually realize it.

    Give me one exemple of another company that has last that long selling poor products

  10. Thank you very much for your opinion and very interesting comments.
    First of all I would like to focus on the original article, please. On the basis of very close similarity in components used for Rolex’s look-alike watches, a Rolex watch (we can take a Submariner, if you like) is some £4,000 too expensive. My original comment was based on Rolex over inflated prices.
    I should have really finished my book on Rolex (brand and history), at least I would make some money on my comments (and findings).
    The question to ask is: “Who was really behind Wilsdorf”? In 1905 Great Britain was a very strong economy dealing with an Empire and also with strong links with the USA.
    On 12th November 1915, “The Rolex Watch Company” was incorporated in England and the documents were signed by Hans Wilsdorf and Alfred James Davies. All for £73 including fees, deeds, duties and Capital.
    There is almost no information on the Wilsdorf family in Kulmbach, Germany and there is certainly little evidence about the “merchant” known as Alfred James Davies. We also don’t know much about Frank Armstrong, an early (Rolex 1918 & 1919) inventor of “luminous dials”, for example. Well over 50 patents were signed by Hans Wilsdorf, as the applicant from 1918 to 1940 – he was not the inventor.
    Rich and influential families like Stern, Beyer, Pfister, Aegler and Borer were early interested in “the brand”. There is plenty more to say about this period of time and the next 25 years, but this is not the time and place.
    There is no other brand, not even Tudor (launched by Wilsdorf in 1946) that has been so successful like the Rolex Brand. In fact, the question to ask is: “why hasn’t Tudor been as successful as Rolex”? Conflict of interest, obviously. Tudor is around 1/4th of the price of a Rolex even if almost identical. The Group has been trying to change this strategy for many years now.
    To answer your questions
    1) People buy Rolex because they perceive quality and status with the brand. It is thanks to marketing (and some ignorance too) that Rolex brand is known worldwide and many other excellent brands remain unknown to the general public.
    2) The Rolex marketing plan has been to sell status – hence their high prices and the perception by the public that who wears a Rolex is someone with money. Far from the truth.
    3) Rolex SA has assets worth well over CHF 190,000,000 – they can afford sponsoring sports and paying for massive advertising.
    4) I didn’t say that Rolex watches are – shit -(Walt Odets did and he is a watchmaker). I simply said that they are extremely overpriced for what they are.
    5) Yes, marketing is very powerful and this is why people still buys Coca-Cola, Kellogs or McDonalds despite the fact that it is bad for the health.
    6) You keep referring to poor product. My simple point is: “Would you pay £47’000 for a Ford Ka”? No, because it would be overpriced and it does not give you the “status” that you are looking for. Those that seek status would buy, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and so on. As a Company – Rolex is not what it seems (there was a lot behind the scene up to 2002). Other old brands have all been taken over, gone out of business or their brand name has been “re-invented” by a new owner. That would be Tag, Breitling, Bulova, Omega and so on.

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  12. Sir nice Job! Thanks for the Articel.

    What you think about Orient? They Movement are all in House make.

    I own a Orient Ray 2 for only 180$ and they lose 1Second per Day!!

    You have right we live in a World where Numbers controlle the People. A Orient isnt good because it is only 180$ and is Cheap i buy better a Omega Ocean. Or my Polo Shirt that is made in China for 5$ and they sell it for 80$ thats how this Sheeple World works!

    Thanks

    • Most brands and watches are really good and excellent value for money. I saw some interesting models in HK, many years ago – and, for the price, I think they are really good watches. Thank you

  13. The author has an extremely basic idea of whats going on but this article should be ignored as I doubt the author has owned or even handled many of these watches. I would say a lot of brands are over priced but it is absolutely no different to any other industry whether it’s alcohol, clothes, cars or anything else that people buy.

    • Thank you John for your comments. The word “assumption” comes true on this occasion, and John is making the wrong assumption. Due to age, travel, many International Fairs, visits to loads of factories and production lines, I cannot really think of any brand and/or model that has not been “touched” by me. [Favourite – Ulysse Nardin]. No, it is not like alcohol, cars or clothes. Maybe it is more like perfumes – where large scale advertising “pays” for the product. It is because I have come across brands from all over the world that I was able, with constructive and proven research, to come up with statements made in this article.

  14. Hello. Very interresting post, and i do agree with you whole heartedly. Whats your take on Longines and their marketing and quality? I am thinking especially about the Hydroconquest, because i feel this model easily can be compared to the Submariner in finish and quality.

  15. Thank you for a interesting article. I own both Rolexes and Omega watches, and I think you underestimate the fact that this marked is feelings more than reason. And for the same reason the money is not important. The value of wearing a watch you have read about, dreamt about (icons like the Speedmaster), will far exceed the sum of money. And you will have the bonus that people like yourself instantly will recognize you as an ambitious person when they see you. It is not even how accurate the watch goes, or even what time it is, it is about passion.

    • Thank you for your educated comment. I, only partially, agree with you.
      Are we talking about a Fabergé egg or a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO worth in excess of £25 millions? We could own a 1970s Heuer Carrera Caliber 11 (around $8’000) or aim for a Patek Philippe Ref 5016P (around $750’000) and we both know that there is no price for what we want to own = demand. You truly admire a Speedmaster and I respect your taste and choice. After all, there must be a reason why there are around 5000 brands of watches out there. Some people save money for their favourite watch, others for their dream car or holiday. Those with money – don’t save, they just buy the Ferrari GTO or the Patek Philippe. “Strange coincidence” that those with loads of money (Bill Gate, Steve Jobs et.al) are not bothered to wear expensive watches.
      However, as kids we wanted the “perfect” toy to play with; was that a car, a truck, a gun, model soldiers and so on. When we become adults we need to “establish” our status and that comes with a suit, shoes, watch, pen, car, house and more. We can see “status” in restaurants, on the underground, on holiday etc.etc.
      The majority of individuals, based on “Erickson’s Stages of Life Theory”, grow up and out of such possessions; just after Adulthood and when approaching Old Age.
      My article was not about “feelings and reason” (judgment and decision making). I’m pointing the finger to those like Rolex that take advantage of public’s ignorance, playing, as you say, on feelings (status symbol). There is such a high demand (created only by Rolex marketing) for the Daytona model that, not only there is a waiting list but also, when the watch come in, it sells at 30% above its RRP. Putting aside feelings (dreams), it remains that most £6’000 Rolex watches or £3’000 Omega watches, still cost only £250 to make. Hence is money spent on dreams which pays for their very expensive marketing.

  16. Thank you! Most interesting. I am 50+, but I guess I am too immature to move into the Erickson stages. I still get exited over status symbols, in form of wonderful engineering and craftmanship (I drove a AMG GT R the other day, fantastic). The status is also important, I have never met anyone who is not affected by status in some form. I guess this is a trait with our species, trying to impress women so that we can get laid (and by doing so spread our genes). You know more on this subject, of course.
    Regarding your pricing, you have to consider the underlaying research to get at correct price. Also marketing. Nothing (?) can be sold if the marked does not know it is there. Marketing also gives tens of thousands of people jobs, they pay tax and buy goods to keep the society going.

    • At my “old age” I have become unaffected by the charm of artistry and elegance. I love to be driven around in a Rolls Royce Dawn or Phantom and love to dine in elegant and refined restaurants but there is more to life than material things. I might even dress for the occasion but I live to please myself and not others. Do we really need to perform like peacocks to attract women!? What kind of women do we want to attract with a gold Rolex and a Mercedes SLC!? If “my woman” doesn’t know the difference between Ulysse Nardin, Rolex and Blancpain, I would only be going out with a bimbo. I seek not to attract bimbos. The root is self-esteem (combined with ignorance and bimbos) and this is why lottery winners will buy Rolex watches.
      With reference to research – there is little going on, as most designs are worked out by computers these days. Marketing provides jobs but we, the public, are finally paying for it and not paying for higher quality.
      Would you pay £95 for an Alessi ashtray or £36 for one Alessi mug, or £300 for a Dyson hair dryer? Incredibly so, we would pay £5,000 for a Rolex (status?) watch, £1,000 for a iPhone, £475 for Church shoes, £750 for a Boss’s suit and yet complain if a restaurant meal comes to £200 per person but would, once again, show off with a £36 bottle of Moët & Chandon or even Dom Perignon.
      You are right, as a matter of showing off and “status” most individuals would not wear a £14,900 F.P. Journe watch, buy a £890 pair of Brunello Cucinelli shoes, a £18’000 Ermenegildo Zegna suit and drink a £200 bottle of Krug. We are merely comparing nouveau riche = poor knowledge/bad taste of wearing a Rolex – against high quality, high class, quintessential products.
      Low class uneducated individuals (I am NOT suggesting that you are one of them), aim for Rolex/Omega, Mercedes/BMW, Ray Ban/Gucci, Montblanc/Dunhill, Church’s/Loake, Moss-Bros/Boss and so on. What do these brands have in common? They share high and expensive marketing campaigns. As per the roots of the original article – the whole point is to buy products with, in mind, value for money and not seeking to attract more bimbos or impress (similar status individuals) like the boss or others.

  17. How do you feel about Longines in this context? Their marketing, quality and priceing? Is the Hydroconquest compareable to the Submariner?

    • Classical example of Rolex being overpriced – by WELL in Excess of £4,000, in this case. The Longines caliber L633 comes from a ‘basic’ ETA 2824-2. Even in this there is no massive difference (certainly not £4,000) between this movement and the Rolex caliber 3135. Automatic, date, sapphire, 300m w/r makes the Longines HydroConquest L3.642.4.56.6, a great value for money watch at only £840. The Longines might not attract bimbos but it will compensate that with an extra £4,500 left in your bank account. Omega Seamaster costs twice as much as a Longines (they both belong to the Swatch Group) but Omega has to pay for royalties at Olympic Games (they paid well over £4 million at the London Olympics) and product placement in movies like James Bond.

      • Thank you for your quick response. The new caliber L888 in the Hydroconquest 44mm is an ETA A31.L01. This is based on the 2892-A2 with a power reserve of 65 hours. I really feel that this watch is a much better value than the Submariner and especially the TAG Aquaracer. The only thing different that can explain higher priceing is ceramic bezel and screwed bracelet. Other than that the difference of $4000 plus, is just stupid.

      • Thank you for mentioning Tag – another over rated brand. I remember the first Tag-Heuer watches sold on some airlines for around £70 and at Makro from £45. Price difference between Longines and Submariner is closer to $5,800. A brand new ceramic bezel costs around $30. Hard to guess (??? not) where the (difference of) $5,800 are spent on!

      • You are right good sir. And bare in mind that the A31.L01 in the Hydroconquest is produced exclusively for Longines. ETA has a cell of 250 people working exclusively for Longines at their factory in St. Imier. And just as a curiosity about price difference, the Omega 8900 Co-axial movement is compareable to the Longines L688 Column Wheel, as they both are developed by ETA with a whopping pricegap of $2500.

  18. Thank you Marcus. It is thanks to people like you that common sense should prevail. Unfortunately it doesn’t.
    In thinking about what Alex has said “feelings and dreams” I agree with him; but only a little bit. My dream car is a Ford Mustang – but using (maybe) common sense, I bought an Audi A8L/3.2. The Ford Mustang would have not served the purpose for which I am using a car.
    The purpose of a watch is to show time. Rolex does it in a very erratic way. For the sake of telling time – any £200 automatic (Seiko) watch should suffice. But Rolex attracts bimbos and the envy of those (ignorant or oblivious) that can’t afford to buy one. Ignorance stands for lack of knowledge and information – meaning that there are hundreds of watches much better than Rolex and even £x0,000s more expensive than Rolex out there, but the ‘uncultured’ aim is to parade achievement. Similar to moths attracted to light or mirror for larks, public at large, hypnotised by television, media and advertising simply fail to reason. We love Coca Cola with its 35g of sugar (7 teaspoons of sugar x can of Coke) and McDonald’s Fries that contains silicone found in Silly Putty and a petrol-based chemical called TBHQ (obesity and diabetes have increased 26% and 9% respectively in 21 years).
    Common sense points to the fact that most Rolex watches cost £250 to be made. If, to fulfil feelings and dreams punters want to throw away their money while making rich the big companies, this is certainly their prerogative. Should I, one day, find an extra £35k in my bank account, I will buy my dream car.

  19. Thank you for this interesting article! However, this doesn’t surprise me, since I knew somehow the “politics” of these big brands, such as Rolex. I know I pay for their marketing, ambassadors, events and so on. I also believe that they make profit from various events, such as sports and Olympic games. Brands like Omega or Longines, for instance, develop the infrastructure for timing these competitions. I think they have good money-making contracts with televisions which display the clock on screen during competitions. However we, as ordinary people pay a lot for thei watches.
    I have a question regarding some swiss watches, especially those from Swatch Group. I know there was and still exists an important “connection” with China and I know some swiss companies already have been sold to some chinese companies. My question is, do you have any idea about components used in Omega, Longines or Tissot which are produced in China? There are rumours that some brands like Tissot, Longines and even Omega produce bracelets and cases in China. What about the movements? Are all their movements produced entirely in Switzerland?

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